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Jesus returns when?



 I am fairly certain that most everybody has heard that Jesus will return to
 "rapture" the church out of "harms" way during "the great seven year" 
tribulation period.  Three main pieces of scripture that are used in this 
teaching are I Corinthians 15:52, I Thessalonians 4:16 and Matthew 24:29-31. 

Now, let's take a look at what I Corinthians 15:52, I Thessalonians 4:16, and 
Matthew 24:29-31 have to say.  




I Corinthians 15:51-54

51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be 
changed, 

52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the "last trump": for the 
trumpet shall "sound", and the "dead" shall be raised incorruptible, and 
"we" shall be changed. 

53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put 
on immortality. 

54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal 
shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that 
is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 

				The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.


I Thessalonians 4:13-18

13. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which 
are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 

14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which 
sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 

15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive 
and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  

16. For the "Lord himself" shall descend from heaven with a "shout, with the 
"voice" of the archangel, and "with" the trump of God: and the dead in Christ 
shall rise first: 

17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in 
the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 

18. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.  

				The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.


Matthew 24:29-31

29. But immediately after the "tribulation" of those days the sun shall be 
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall 
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 

30. and "then" shall appear the "sign of the Son of man" in heaven: and 
then shall "all the tribes" of the earth mourn, and "they shall see" the 
Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 

31. And he shall send forth his angels with a great "sound" of a trumpet, 
and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one 
end of heaven to the other. 
	
					1901 American Standard Version, 
					(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.
	



According to I Corinthians 15:52 and I Thessalonians 4:16, Jesus will return at 
the "sound" of the "last" trump.  The "seventh" trumpet. 

Notice that Jesus returns at the "sound" of, or "with" the "last" trumpet.  

"Not before" the trumpet sounds.  "Not after" the trumpet sounds.  

But "during" the blast of the "seventh" trumpet.  

Seems pretty clear to me thus far.  How about you, my friend, Does this seem 
clear to you too as well?

Now let's take a look at the Seventh Trumpet and what the messenger says regarding 
the events that lead up to the "sounding" of the seventh trumpet.  



The Seventh Trumpet



There is a major conflict here.  "Not with what is written".  

The conflict is between what is being taught regarding the "End Times", the 
"Rapture of the Church", the "Return of Jesus", and what is "written" in 
the bible.  

My argument is in regards to these "contradictory teachings" that are being 
bandied about in the guise of "Truth".

In order for my argument in this exegesis, to stand upon firmer ground, I have 
posted several bible translations in the section below, which I use here, for 
the foundation and clarity, of my argument. 


In the days when the "Seventh Angel" is to "begin" to "sound" "all mysteries" 
will be fulfilled.  Finished, with nothing left undone.  Time will end.  Time 
will be no more.  All that remains is for Jesus to return.  "Time ends", 
"Eternity begins".  (Revelation 10:6-7)
									
									
Let's look into this further.





Revelation 10:1-11

	"The seventh Trumpet and the conditions there of"

1.  And I saw another strong angel coming down out of heaven, arrayed with a cloud; 
and the rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as the sun, and his feet as 
pillars of fire; 

2.  and he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the 
sea, and his left upon the earth; 

3.  and he cried with a great voice, as a lion roareth: and when he cried, the 
seven thunders uttered their voices. 

4.  And when the seven thunders uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I 
heard a voice from heaven saying, Seal up the things which the seven thunders 
uttered, and write them not. 

5.  And the angel that I saw standing upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up 
his right hand to heaven, 
 
6.  and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created the heaven and 
the things that are therein, and the earth and the things that are therein, and 
the sea and the things that are therein, that there shall be "delay no longer: 

7.  but in the days of the "voice" of the seventh angel, when he is "about" to sound, 
then "is finished" the "mystery of God", according to the good tidings which he 
declared to his servants the prophets. 

8.  And the voice which I heard from heaven, I heard it again speaking with me, 
and saying, Go, take the book which is open in the hand of the angel that standeth 
upon the sea and upon the earth. 9And I went unto the angel, saying unto him that 
he should give me the little book. And he saith unto me, Take it, and eat it up; 
and it shall make thy belly bitter, but in thy mouth it shall be sweet as honey. 

10. And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it 
was in my mouth sweet as honey: and when I had eaten it, my belly was made bitter. 

11. And they say unto me, Thou must prophesy again over many peoples and nations 
and tongues and kings. 

				1901 American Standard Version, 
				   (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Revelation 10:1-11

1.  I saw another powerful angel come down from heaven. This one was covered with 
a cloud, and a rainbow was over his head. His face was like the sun, his legs were 
like columns of fire, 

2.  and with his hand he held a little scroll  that had been unrolled. He stood 
there with his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land. 

3.  Then he shouted with a voice that sounded like a growling lion. Thunder roared 
seven times.

4.  After the thunder stopped, I was about to write what it had said. But a voice 
from heaven shouted, “Keep it secret! Don’t write these things.”

5.  The angel I had seen standing on the sea and the land then held his right hand 
up toward heaven. 

6.  He made a promise in the name of God who lives forever and who created heaven, 
earth, the sea, and every living creature. The angel said, “You won’t have to 
wait any longer". 

7.  God told his secret plans to his servants the prophets, and it will "all" happen 
"by the time" the seventh angel "sounds" his trumpet.

8.  Once again the voice from heaven spoke to me. It said, “Go and take the open 
scroll from the hand of the angel standing on the sea and the land.”

9.  When I went over to ask the angel for the little scroll, the angel said, 
“Take the scroll and eat it! Your stomach will turn sour, but the taste in your 
mouth will be as sweet as honey.” 

10. I took the little scroll from the hand of the angel and ate it. The taste 
was as sweet as honey, but my stomach turned sour.

11. Then some voices said, “Keep on telling what will happen to the people of 
many nations, races, and languages, and also to kings.”

				(Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1995
				   by the American Bible Society.

Revelation 10:1-11

1.  And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: 
and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his 
feet as pillars of fire: 

2.  And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the 
sea, and his left foot on the earth, 

3.  And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, 
seven thunders uttered their voices. 

4.  And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: 
and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the 
seven thunders uttered, and write them not. 

5.  And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his 
hand to heaven, 

6.  And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the 
things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the 
sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be "time no longer": 

7.  But in the days of the "voice" of the "seventh" angel, when he shall "begin" to 
"sound",  the "mystery of God" should be "finished", as he hath declared to his 
servants the prophets. 

8.  And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and 
take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon 
the sea and upon the earth. 

9.  And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he 
said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it 
shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 

10. And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it 
was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was 
bitter. 

11. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and 
nations, and tongues, and kings. 

				The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Revelation 10:1-11

"The Mighty Angel with the Little Book"

1.  I saw still another mighty angel coming down from heaven, clothed with a 
cloud. And a rainbow was on his head, his face was like the sun, and his feet 
like pillars of fire. 

2.  He had a little book open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea 
and his left foot on the land, 

3.  and cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roars. When he cried out, seven 
thunders uttered their voices. 

4.  Now when the seven thunders uttered their voices, I was about to write; but 
I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Seal up the things which the seven 
thunders uttered, and do not write them.”

5.  The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his hand 
to heaven 

6.  and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the 
things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea 
and the things that are in it, that there should be "delay no longer", 

7.  but in the days of the "sounding" of the seventh angel, when he is "about" to 
"sound", the "mystery of God" would be "finished", as He declared to His servants the 
prophets.

"John Eats the Little Book"

8.  Then the voice which I heard from heaven spoke to me again and said, “Go, 
take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel who stands on the 
sea and on the earth.”

9.  So I went to the angel and said to him, “Give me the little book.”
And he said to me, “Take and eat it; and it will make your stomach bitter, but 
it will be as sweet as honey in your mouth.”

10. Then I took the little book out of the angel’s hand and ate it, and it was 
as sweet as honey in my mouth. But when I had eaten it, my stomach became bitter. 

11. And he said to me, “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, 
tongues, and kings.”

				The New King James Version,
				   (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.

Revelation 10:1-11

"The Angel and the Small Scroll"

1.  Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, surrounded by a 
cloud, with a rainbow over his head. His face shone like the sun, and his feet 
were like pillars of fire. 

2.  And in his hand was a small scroll, which he had unrolled. He stood with his 
right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land. 

3.  And he gave a great shout, like the roar of a lion. And when he shouted, the 
seven thunders answered.

4.  When the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write. But a voice from heaven 
called to me: “Keep secret what the seven thunders said. Do not write it down.”

5.  Then the mighty angel standing on the sea and on the land lifted his right 
hand to heaven. 

6.  And he swore an oath in the name of the one who lives forever and ever, who 
created heaven and everything in it, the earth and everything in it, and the sea 
and everything in it. He said, “God will wait no longer". 

7.  But when the seventh angel "blows" his trumpet, "God’s mysterious plan" will be 
"fulfilled". It will happen just as he announced it to his servants the prophets.”

8.  Then the voice from heaven called to me again: “Go and take the unrolled 
scroll from the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land.”

9.  So I approached him and asked him to give me the little scroll. “Yes, take it 
and eat it,” he said. “At first it will taste like honey, but when you swallow 
it, it will make your stomach sour!” 

10. So I took the little scroll from the hands of the angel, and I ate it! It 
was sweet in my mouth, but it made my stomach sour. 

11. Then he said to me, “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, 
languages, and kings.”

				Holy Bible, New Living Translation, 
				   (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.) 1996.

		

The messenger, who was sharing and explaining this mystery, this vision, with 
John, said that "everything" will be "finished", with nothing left to fulfill 
when the "seventh trumpet" is ready to "sound". Revelation 10:6-7. 
		
So before the seventh trumpet is ready to sound, all the Seals will have been 
opened, all the vials will have been poured out, and six trumpets would have 
sounded.  

And in addition to this, according to I Corinthians 15:52, I Thessalonians 4:16 
and Matthew 24:29-31 Jesus will return at the "sound" of the last trump.  At the 
sound of the seventh trumpet is when Jesus returns.  

So you see,according to what the messenger tells John, the seventh trumpet cannot 
make any sound until all of these things which have been prophesied are finished.  
Not only the things which are prophesied in this book of Revelation, but also the 
things which were told to all of the prophets since the beginning of time.

An interesting end result regarding the Seventh Trumpet is written in 
		Revelation 11:14-19

But wait. Aren't I Corinthians 15:52, I Thessalonians 4:16, and Matthew 24:29-31, 
three of the main portions of scripture that are being used to teach of a snatching 
away of the Church,at the start of the "Seven Year Tribulation"?  A "Pre-Tribulation 
Rapture"?  

And, doesn't this teaching also clearly state that this "Rapturing" away of the 
"Church" will take place prior to the Return of Jesus upon the blowing of the 
seventh trumpet?

According to what is written in these passages from these various versions of the 
bible, the seventh trumpet closes the third woe, and seals the end of time for 
eternity.

Now I ask again, "Jesus returns when?"

From what I have read in these passages, I have come to understand that return of 
Jesus at the "sound" of the "seventh trumpet", can only happen.......

	"Once".  				And "only" once.  

Does this "seventh trumpet" sound one time and one time only?  When "time ends" 
and "eternity begins"?  Does this prove that the seventh trumpet can only sound 
once, not twice?

If this is true, then would'nt it be just as true to say that Jesus will indeed 
return only one time?
 

Is it even "remotely" possible for Jesus to return with the "sound" of the "seventh 
trumpet", "rapture the "church" away prior to the "Great Tribulation",....and then, 
"return again" with ten thousands of  his saints, at the   "sound" of the    
"seventh trumpet" a "second time" to execute judgement? 

Jesus told several parables that are in line with this argument.  The Parable of 
the "Wheat and the Tares", the "Great Draught of Fishes", the "Separating of the 
Sheep and the Goats".  

Jesus went to great extremes to ensure that his disciples understood these parables 
and what they entailed.



Matthew 13:1-17 

	"Parable of the Sower and the Seed"

1. On that day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side. 

2. And there were gathered unto him great multitudes, so that he entered into a 
boat, and sat; and all the multitude stood on the beach. 

3. And he spake to them many things in parables, saying, Behold, the sower went 
forth to sow; 

4. and as he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the birds came and 
devoured them: 

5. and others fell upon the rocky places, where they had not much earth: and 
straightway they sprang up, because they had no deepness of earth: 

6. and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, 
they withered away. 

7. And others fell upon the thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked them: 

8. and others fell upon the good ground, and yielded fruit, some a hundredfold, 
some sixty, some thirty. 

9. He that hath ears, let him hear. 

10. And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in 
parables? 

11. And he answered and said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries 
of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 

12. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but 
whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath. 

13. Therefore speak I to them in parables; because seeing they see not, and hearing 
they hear not, neither do they understand. 

14. And unto them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye 
shall hear, and shall in no wise understand; And seeing ye shall see, and shall 
in no wise perceive: 

15. For this people’s heart is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, 
And their eyes they have closed; Lest haply they should perceive with their eyes, 
And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should turn again, 
And I should heal them. 

16. But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. 

17. For verily I say unto you, that many prophets and righteous men desired to 
see the things which ye see, and saw them not; and to hear the things which ye 
hear, and heard them not. 

				1901 American Standard Version, 
					(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Matthew 13:18-23

	"Parable of the Sower and the Seed explained"

18. Hear then ye the parable of the sower. 

19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then 
cometh the evil one, and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. 
This is he that was sown by the way side. 

20. And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, 
and straightway with joy receiveth it; 

21. yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation 
or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth. 

22. And he that was sown among the thorns, this is he that heareth the word; and 
the care of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he 
becometh unfruitful. 

23. And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and 
understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, 
some sixty, some thirty. 

				1901 American Standard Version, 
					(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Matthew 13:24-30

	"Parable of the Tares and the Wheat"

24. Another parable set he before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened 
unto a man that sowed good seed in his field: 

25. but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares also among the wheat, and 
went away. 

26. But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares 
also. 

27. And the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst thou 
not sow good seed in thy field? whence then hath it tares? 

28. And he said unto them, An enemy hath done this. And the servants say unto him, 
Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 

29. But he saith, Nay; lest haply while ye gather up the tares, ye root up the 
wheat with them. 

30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I 
will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them in bundles to 
burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn. 

				1901 American Standard Version, 
					(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Matthew 13:34-35

	"The reason Jesus spoke in parables"

34. All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a 
parable spake he nothing unto them: 

35. that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophet, saying, I 
will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of 
the world. 

				1901 American Standard Version, 
					(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Matthew 13:36-43

	"Parable of the Tares and Wheat explained"

36. Then he left the multitudes, and went into the house: and his disciples came 
unto him, saying, Explain unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 

37. And he answered and said, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 

38. and the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; 
and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 

39. and the enemy that sowed them is the devil: and the harvest is the end of the 
world; and the reapers are angels. 

40. As therefore the tares are gathered up and burned with fire; so shall it be 
in the end of the world. 

41. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his 
kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity, 

42. and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be the weeping and 
the gnashing of teeth. 

43. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. 
He that hath ears, let him hear. 

				1901 American Standard Version, 
					(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Matthew 13:47-48

	"Parable of the Great Draught of Fishes"

47. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, 
and gathered of every kind: 

48. which, when it was filled, they drew up on the beach; and they sat down, and 
gathered the good into vessels, but the bad they cast away. 

				1901 American Standard Version, 
					(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Matthew 13:49-50

	"Parable of the Great Drought of Fishes explained"
	
49. So shall it be in the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever 
the wicked from among the righteous, 

50. and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be the weeping and 
the gnashing of teeth. 

				1901 American Standard Version, 
					(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Matthew 13: 51-52

	"Jesus ensures the understanding of the disciples"

51. Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea. 

52. And he said unto them, Therefore every scribe who hath been made a disciple 
to the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is a householder, who bringeth 
forth out of his treasure things new and old. 

				1901 American Standard Version, 
					(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Maztthew 25:31-46

	"Seperation of the Sheep and the Goats"

31. But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, 
then shall he sit on the throne of his glory: 

32. and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them 
one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats; 

33. and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 

34. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my 
Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 

35. for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; 
I was a stranger, and ye took me in; 

36. naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and 
ye came unto me. 

37. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, 
and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink? 

38. And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 

39. And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 

40. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch 
as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me. 

41. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, 
into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels: 

42. for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave 
me no drink; 

43. I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, 
and in prison, and ye visited me not. 

44. Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, 
or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 

45. Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did 
it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me. 

46. And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal 
life. 

		1901 American Standard Version, 
			(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.


When any false teaching is presented as truth, then the one presenting these false 
teachings as "Truth" is guilty of placing stumbling blocks before all of God's 
"Little Children". 



Matthew 18:6-7


6. But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, 
it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, 
and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea. 

7. Woe unto the world because of occasions of stumbling! for it must needs be that 
the occasions come; but woe to that man through whom the occasion cometh! 

			1901 American Standard Version, 
				(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Mark 9:42

42. And whosoever shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, 
it were better for him if a great millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were 
cast into the sea.

			1901 American Standard Version, 
				(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

Luke 17:1-2

1. And he said unto his disciples, It is impossible but that occasions of stumbling 
should come; but woe unto him, through whom they come! 

2. It were well for him if a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were thrown 
into the sea, rather than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble.

			1901 American Standard Version, 
				(Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.


			Now I ask again, "Jesus returns when?"